The flare saga continues

I did hear back from Lee, and they recommended I clean up and polish the entry ramp of my die and cut a secondary bevel at the transition of the entry cone to the taper bore.
I will post results when I can get that done.

How would any of that have any effect on this, the problem you are having?

upload_2023-5-19_20-13-24.jpeg

If you think you have a die problem, you will void any warranty as soon as you modify them and your problem will still be with you. Probably even create others if your “machine shop” is a dremel tool.

It is beginning to seem like you don’t want the solution, rather just other rabbit holes to explore and that’s cool if you just want to wander.
 
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I *think* I finally beat this horse to death. I took all the great advice I got, cleaned off my bench, grabbed a handful of cases and started over.
I was resolved not to measure anything, and held true to that right to the very end.
Starting with a half dozen different cases I deprimed and sized them, ignored length, then successfully plunked them all in my case/ammo gauge.
The next step was to expand them, very minimally - only just enough that a coated cast bullet would sit unsupported in the mouth of the case without tipping over.
Gauge plunk test failed now, as expected, with the case only going in to the gauge about halfway. I realize this was a pointless test.
I then seated a bullet in the unprimed empty case to the length preferred by my magazines. The barrel will accept them longer but if they won’t load in the mags there’s no point.
I then tried to crimp and deflare the test rounds, but they caught in the crimp die and would only go in with a fast authoritative slam of the press ram.
After crimping none of the rounds would plunk in the gauge, some standing proud enough to display the entire rim and groove.
Here’s where I went back to the advice from Lee Precision. I got out my trusty Dremel and with a sandpaper cylinder proceeded to smooth the die entry cone and make a secondary taper at its inner edge. I followed this up by using a fine grey Dremel cylinder to polish both the cone and the secondary bevel.
Back to the bench to make five more empty test rounds without readjusting the expander die from the previous setting.
Wow! What a difference, all the test rounds slid easily in to the crimp die, comparatively like sliding them in to soft butter.
After getting the crimp die adjusted so the crimps were reduced to SAAMI spec all of the rounds plunked effortlessly in to the gauge.
All I can surmise is that there was enough force exerted by the seating die before polishing that it micro-bulged the cases enough that they would not plunk nicely.
So thanks again to everyone for all of your advice and for sticking with me through the evolution. I know at times we were getting frustrated with each other and it was great you did not give up on me.

My takeaways
I was expanding too much to begin with which exacerbated the issue. By over expanding short cases it brought things to the point that longer cases were belled ridiculously. If I set the expansion on a short case with the bare minimum needed to avoid shaving lead the long cases are still reasonable.
In the end the flare was a red herring, and a problem of my own making.
My reliance on measurements and numbers confounded the issue. Some times playing by ear is better.
When frustrated or lost it is time to clean the bench, throw away my notes and start over from square one. It’s not magic or rocket science.
You guys are great! I need to listen better and trust tribal knowledge more.

I’ll do a full run tomorrow and post the results. I am a little burned out tonight.
 
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Glad you got it figured out.

When I started loading it was .45acp for my Kimber 1911. Using 230gr fmj made to the same measurements as factory ammo my reloads wouldn't plunk in my barrel. Frustrating to say the least. Turns out the ogive on my bullet was a bit different than the factory ammo I had measured, and my reloads needed to be shortened by .010" or so to plunk.

They still would only plunk at about a 50% success rate. The solution to this problem was tightening the crimp to .4685" or just under. Now they pass the plunk test nearly every time. I still get one here and there that doesn't want to cooperate, maybe one in a few hundred, but those can be shot in my other .45's.

So this particular gun has a short and tight chamber, and ammo has to be just right to work in it. If I make ammo to max or near max SAMMI specs it just won't work in this gun.

By the way, I learned from knowledgeable people on forums like this, not from books, that measurements are good but sometimes you have to go by feel.

chris
 
I *think* I finally beat this horse to death. I took all the great advice I got, cleaned off my bench, grabbed a handful of cases and started over.
I was resolved not to measure anything, and held true to that right to the very end.
Starting with a half dozen different cases I deprimed and sized them, ignored length, then successfully plunked them all in my case/ammo gauge.
The next step was to expand them, very minimally - only just enough that a coated cast bullet would sit unsupported in the mouth of the case without tipping over.
Gauge plunk test failed now, as expected, with the case only going in to the gauge about halfway. I realize this was a pointless test.
I then seated a bullet in the unprimed empty case to the length preferred by my magazines. The barrel will accept them longer but if they won’t load in the mags there’s no point.
I then tried to crimp and deflare the test rounds, but they caught in the crimp die and would only go in with a fast authoritative slam of the press ram.
After crimping none of the rounds would plunk in the gauge, some standing proud enough to display the entire rim and groove.
Here’s where I went back to the advice from Lee Precision. I got out my trusty Dremel and with a sandpaper cylinder proceeded to smooth the die entry cone and make a secondary taper at its inner edge. I followed this up by using a fine grey Dremel cylinder to polish both the cone and the secondary bevel.
Back to the bench to make five more empty test rounds without readjusting the expander die from the previous setting.
Wow! What a difference, all the test rounds slid easily in to the crimp die, comparatively like sliding them in to soft butter.
After getting the crimp die adjusted so the crimps were reduced to SAAMI spec all of the rounds plunked effortlessly in to the gauge.
All I can surmise is that there was enough force exerted by the seating die before polishing that it micro-bulged the cases enough that they would not plunk nicely.
So thanks again to everyone for all of your advice and for sticking with me through the evolution. I know at times we were getting frustrated with each other and it was great you did not give up on me.

My takeaways
I was expanding too much to begin with which exacerbated the issue. By over expanding short cases it brought things to the point that longer cases were belled ridiculously. If I set the expansion on a short case with the bare minimum needed to avoid shaving lead the long cases are still reasonable.
In the end the flare was a red herring, and a problem of my own making.
My reliance on measurements and numbers confounded the issue. Some times playing by ear is better.
When frustrated or lost it is time to clean the bench, throw away my notes and start over from square one. It’s not magic or rocket science.
You guys are great! I need to listen better and trust tribal knowledge more.

I’ll do a full run tomorrow and post the results. I am a little burned out tonight.
If you think you’re burned out…

:)
 
Loaded up a 50 round Parti-pac and everything worked perfectly. I checked length on my range pickup brass, threw everything under .891” in the scrap bin and trimmed long rounds to the recommended .893”.
I expanded barely enough for the bullet to sit in a short case.
All 50 rounds plunked perfectly.
IMG_0659.jpeg IMG_0660.jpeg
 
What about the blue coating?
You’re welcome to my scrap bucket. Lol
Guess I should also ask—who/what recommends .893” as a maximum length? Curious.

Edit: just measured a random selection of ten R-P cases:
.892
.885
.894
.893
.890
.892
.891
.890
.891
.889
If I have it right you would trim one and trash four?
I’d load ten
 
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Loaded up a 50 round Parti-pac and everything worked perfectly. I checked length on my range pickup brass, threw everything under .891” in the scrap bin and trimmed long rounds to the recommended .893”.
I expanded barely enough for the bullet to sit in a short case.
All 50 rounds plunked perfectly.
Chunking everything under .891" in the scrap bin and trimming the rest to .893" may work, but it's just masking a problem that you shouldn't be having, not curing the problem. But, if it works for you, I'm glad for you.
 
SAAMI I would assume.

45ACP = 0.898, -0.010 case length.

So 0.888 to 0.898 would be considered okay. I have never found one out of that range, so far, in thousands of mixed range brass.

GD
My random sampling listed above, taken solely for the purposes of this thread and I’ll never do it again, included one (.885) and it’s going down range like all the rest.
 
Close.

Do not shoot Dad's sewing machine though. GI issued one.

GD
Buddy of mine who owned a gun store picked up a genuine unicorn: Singer 1911A1 in near perfect condition. A middle aged couple brought it all of the wife’s father’s guns before putting him in a home. My buddy told the husband the guns they were bringing in were special and ought to go to auction. Evidently both the husband and wife were really rude to him - to the point of being insulting and slandering everyone involved in the gun culture - so he low-balled them and kept most of it for his own collection. There’s a lesson here for folks whose kids don’t respect their parents or their traditions. I asked at the time if he bought any reloading gear but they didn’t bring any in.
 
Loaded up a 50 round Parti-pac and everything worked perfectly. I checked length on my range pickup brass, threw everything under .891” in the scrap bin and trimmed long rounds to the recommended .893”.
I expanded barely enough for the bullet to sit in a short case.
All 50 rounds plunked perfectly.
View attachment 1152549 View attachment 1152550

What grain bullet is that? And what is your OAL? Thanks.
 
BTW, judging from the bulge from the bullet seating it is probably either a contact or just a couple percent compressed at that COAL.
I should probably have measured depth to powder.
Powder was mid range N330
 
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