The flare saga continues

[jmorris]

I want a picture of a one inch long 45acp case.

My shot ones are longer than that, don’t flare them though.

 

[NMexJim]

At this point, you really should be calling Lee. Here's the number.

 

[CQB45ACP]

My shot ones are longer than that, don’t flare them though.

View attachment 1151749

I’m confused? Not a 45acp any more then. Want to see what OP is talking about.

 

[jmorris]

That’s the only chambering they will work in…

He might have got his hands on 460 Rowland brass.



You can get similar (ridiculous) amounts of bell running 45 ACP cases in a die set up for 45 GAP brass.

 

[Atavar]

I’m sure this has already been asked but I can’t seem to find it or an answer: Why exactly are you using a Lee Taper Crimp Die instead of taper crimping in the Hornady seating die, as per the die’s instructions? Also, I hope you understand the Lee crimping dies - both the Handgun CD and the Factory CD - are intended to be used AFTER the seating die has removed the neck expansion/flare. Belling the case mouth is obviously not interfering with the seating die so try adjusting it so the taper crimp removes the bell and taper crimps. Or, if you want to use the Lee taper crimp die adjust the seating die so it only removes/reduces the bell and then taper crimp in a separate operation.

I don’t taper crimp with the Hornady Die set because the crimp die is a roll crimp. I believe it’s a series 2 vs 3 issue.
When I have tried to use the Hornady Die to remove the flare that works well, so long as all the cases are the same length. If some of the cases are longer instead of removing the flare it creates a roll crimp.

 

[Atavar]

OK, that’s not a few thousandths difference in length.

.95-.88= .070. That much is pretty visible.


Sorry guys. I’m a day sleeper. I’ll get pictures tomorrow or late tonight.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I don’t taper crimp with the Hornady Die set because the crimp die is a roll crimp. I believe it’s a series 2 vs 3 issue.
When I have tried to use the Hornady Die to remove the flare that works well, so long as all the cases are the same length. If some of the cases are longer instead of removing the flare it creates a roll crimp.

I have a Hornady .45ACP die set which is probably ten years old and the seating die is definitely not a roll crimp. I think step 1 should have been to replace that seating die with a newer Hornady seating die that taper crimps. Also, I agree that it really truly sounds like you do not have all .45ACP brass. Maybe somebody cut down .45WinMag??? Which is crazy but, so is this problem so... who knows?

 

[Skgreen]

Why Hornady put a roll crimp die in a .45 acp die set I don’t know

Item # 546554, 45 AUTO/AR/WIN dies come with a roll crimp. (I have that same set)
Item # 546555 45 Auto w Taper Crimp comes with a taper crimp. (I use a RCBS taper crimp die)

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Item # 546554, 45 AUTO/AR/WIN dies come with a roll crimp. (I have that same set)
Item # 546555 45 Auto w Taper Crimp comes with a taper crimp. (I use a RCBS taper crimp die)

View attachment 1151783

Well that explains the roll crimp. I’m still corn fused about the length and I think I would still get a taper die in just .45ACP.

 

[Gillie Dog]

From Lee’s description of carbide factory crimp die for pistol calibers:
This die applies a roll style crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp.
https://leeprecision.com/handgun-carbide-factory-crimp-die

Lee’s handgun taper crimp die has no adjusting screw.
https://leeprecision.com/handgun-taper-crimp-die

LEEs new website has the description of their own dies wrong.

Auto calibers Carbide FCDs are taper and revolver caliber Carbide FCDs are roll crimp. I have disassembled all my FCDs and they are taper for auto calibers, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP And roll for 38 Special and 44 mag. All of them are carbide FCDs with adjusting stem.

Titan Reloading has description of these FCDs correctly stated on their site.

Just FYI

GD

 

[CQB45ACP]

LEEs new website has the description of their own dies wrong.

Auto calibers Carbide FCDs are taper and revolver caliber Carbide FCDs are roll crimp. I have disassembled all my FCDs and they are taper for auto calibers, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP And roll for 38 Special and 44 mag. All of them are carbide FCDs with adjusting stem.

Titan Reloading has description of these FCDs correctly stated on their site.

Just FYI

GD

Interesting

I just looked and they certainly are different.

I had always thought for handguns the FCD was traditional taper but rifles was a collet roll crimp. But can’t actually find anywhere Lee has said that.

But, anyway, how do you know Lee is wrong but Titan is correct? Just curious.****** Never mind, see below:

Edit:I actually just found this on Lee’s support portal. Thanks for the nudge.

“The carbide factory crimp die crimp style is a taper crimp for all auto loading handguns.”

https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase/article/carbide-factory-crimp-die-crimp-style

 

[jmorris]

rifles was a collet roll crimp.

I see collet and roll as two different styles. Over doing a roll crimp can buckle a case due to the downward force, where a collet die squeeze’s the case all the way around the bullet.



And before you tell me, “That’s way too much crimp.”, you’ll have to talk to Lee about that…

 

[jmorris]

Sorry guys. I’m a day sleeper. I’ll get pictures tomorrow or late tonight.

The head stamp on the long ones would tell us the most.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I see collet and roll as two different styles. Over doing a roll crimp can buckle a case due to the downward force, where a collet die squeeze’s the case all the way around the bullet.

View attachment 1151882

And before you tell me, “That’s way too much crimp.”, you’ll have to talk to Lee about that…

I’m sure you’re correct. I was stating how I distinguished between taper & other crimping.

 

[CQB45ACP]

The head stamp on the long ones would tell us the most.

AND a picture AND no one’s asked, but do you have a case gauge AND do these cases pass after sizing?

 

[Gillie Dog]

Interesting

I just looked and they certainly are different.

I had always thought for handguns the FCD was traditional taper but rifles was a collet roll crimp. But can’t actually find anywhere Lee has said that.

But, anyway, how do you know Lee is wrong but Titan is correct? Just curious.****** Never mind, see below:

Edit:I actually just found this on Lee’s support portal. Thanks for the nudge.

“The carbide factory crimp die crimp style is a taper crimp for all auto loading handguns.”

https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase/article/carbide-factory-crimp-die-crimp-style

Lee's new website sucks and is hard to navigate/not intuitive, along with being very incomplete, little bity red print, etcetera, besides has a lot of errors like this one. Old website told you the difference of carbide FCDs on order page. I for one do not like their backwards change. (rant off now)

Yes, the rifle FCDs I have are collet.

GD

 

[CQB45ACP]

Lee's new website sucks and is hard to navigate/not intuitive, along with being very incomplete, little bity red print, etcetera, besides has a lot of errors like this one. Old website told you the difference of carbide FCDs on order page. I for one do not like their backwards change. (rant off now)

Yes, the rifle FCDs I have are collet.

GD

I agree thought it was just my crappy phone since my iPad died.

 

[Atavar]

AND a picture AND no one’s asked, but do you have a case gauge AND do these cases pass after sizing?

Yes, they pass the case gauge perfectly after sizing.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yes, they pass the case gauge perfectly after sizing.

Length too? Then you don’t have any that measured .950 or anything beyond SAAMI max. Am I right?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Lee's new website sucks and is hard to navigate/not intuitive, along with being very incomplete, little bity red print, etcetera, besides has a lot of errors like this one. Old website told you the difference of carbide FCDs on order page. I for one do not like their backwards change. (rant off now)

Yes, the rifle FCDs I have are collet.

GD

Two different products. Lee makes crimp dies that are not factory crimp dies. The OP has a pistol taper crimp die, not a factory crimp die.

 

[Gillie Dog]

Two different products. Lee makes crimp dies that are not factory crimp dies. The OP has a pistol taper crimp die, not a factory crimp die.

Agreed, I was responding to a post stating the FCDs, with a link to such, were all roll crimp which they are not. LEE fixed their website to indicate properly this morning.

It was an informational post only and probably thread drift but incorrect information was given which might confuse the situation.

GD

 

[higgite]

Agreed, I was responding to a post stating the FCDs, with a link to such, were all roll crimp which they are not. LEE fixed their website to indicate properly this morning.

It was an informational post only and probably thread drift but incorrect information was given which might confuse the situation.

GD

Thanks for your (and Lee's) correction about FCDs. Now that that's out of the way, we can concentrate on OPs handgun taper crimp die and expander die problem(s).
Like CQB, I'm curious how a .95" 45ACP case passed a case gauge. Something is still amiss.

 

[jmorris]

Yes, they pass the case gauge perfectly after sizing.

If the case is .950 long, the rim would be proud of a 45 ACP case gauge by this amount.



There is a shoulder down in there that would prevent a .950 case to be inserted enough to be flush (as the case should be).



Figure out the head stamp yet?

 

[21H40]

Reading through the thread, I can't help but wonder, why not just set your dies up for one size and load THAT size brass. If the longer ones work in your 45, then adjust the dies and do a batch of those.

It sounds like the problem you're having is that you have some out-of-spec brass (too long) and it isn't working when your dies are within spec.

 

[kidneyboy]

Jeez, this is a laborious thread. I have loaded 10s of thousands of 45acp rounds, including the rounds I use for bullseye competitions, with a Lee 4 die set. This isn't rocket science. Its not even complicated. I set the dies exactly as the instructions say, use mixed headstamps, mixed small and large primers and some of my brass has been loaded so many times the headstamp is almost gone. I never check the brass dimensions. It doesn't matter what bullet I use, I just follow the instructions. I only measure for OAL and pick an average for the flare. To much flare? Use less. Not enough flare? Use a little more.This has worked in every 45acp handgun I have ever owned.
To the OP - Start over. It's obvious you are overthinking this. Take the dies out of the press, read the instructions for those dies and start over. Put the calipers away and stop doing math.