The flare saga continues

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Jeez, this is a laborious thread. I have loaded 10s of thousands of 45acp rounds, including the rounds I use for bullseye competitions, with a Lee 4 die set. This isn't rocket science. Its not even complicated. I set the dies exactly as the instructions say, use mixed headstamps, mixed small and large primers and some of my brass has been loaded so many times the headstamp is almost gone. I never check the brass dimensions. It doesn't matter what bullet I use, I just follow the instructions. I only measure for OAL and pick an average for the flare. To much flare? Use less. Not enough flare? Use a little more.This has worked in every 45acp handgun I have ever owned.
To the OP - Start over. It's obvious you are overthinking this. Take the dies out of the press, read the instructions for those dies and start over. Put the calipers away and stop doing math.

Bravo! Fantisimo!

 

[Rodfac]

Without reading the entire thread: to get uniform crimps, you need UNIFORM case lengths....trim as little as possible to achieve a uniform length and sort by head stamp. Scrounging brass off the range without trimming to a uniform length is a prescription for frustration; too, range pick up brass is an unknown quantity and may be dangerous. There is a reason a previous shooter left it laying there...could be he knew it was worn out....

 

[Atavar]

Thanks for your (and Lee's) correction about FCDs. Now that that's out of the way, we can concentrate on OPs handgun taper crimp die and expander die problem(s).
Like CQB, I'm curious how a .95" 45ACP case passed a case gauge. Something is still amiss.

Mia culpa, I haven’t been out to the bench yet, life interferes, but I think that was me doing a typo when I meant .895. I know, a world of difference.

 

[Atavar]

Jeez, this is a laborious thread. I have loaded 10s of thousands of 45acp rounds, including the rounds I use for bullseye competitions, with a Lee 4 die set. This isn't rocket science. Its not even complicated. I set the dies exactly as the instructions say, use mixed headstamps, mixed small and large primers and some of my brass has been loaded so many times the headstamp is almost gone. I never check the brass dimensions. It doesn't matter what bullet I use, I just follow the instructions. I only measure for OAL and pick an average for the flare. To much flare? Use less. Not enough flare? Use a little more.This has worked in every 45acp handgun I have ever owned.
To the OP - Start over. It's obvious you are overthinking this. Take the dies out of the press, read the instructions for those dies and start over. Put the calipers away and stop doing math.

I agree with you 100%. This is why I am so frustrated trying to figure out why I am having so much trouble when everyone else just sails through.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I agree with you 100%. This is why I am so frustrated trying to figure out why I am having so much trouble when everyone else just sails through.

Tell me please of all the suggestions made over the past several days which have you tried and what were the results? Cause other than buying an M-die I can’t see that you’re doing anything but continuing your same techniques. And that’s not solving anything.

 

[jmorris]

Mia culpa, I haven’t been out to the bench yet, life interferes, but I think that was me doing a typo when I meant .895. I know, a world of difference.

Yeah, we only know what you are telling us, if that information is incorrect, our “help” doesn’t have much chance of actually helping you.

If they are wrong, I’d probably just refer you back to #27.

 

[jmorris]

I agree with you 100%. This is why I am so frustrated trying to figure out why I am having so much trouble when everyone else just sails through.

I can’t speak for anyone but me; however, I take things one step at a time. If I identify a problem I focus on said problem and try not to get lost going down other paths that won’t fix the problem. Your frustration seems to come from not being methodical. You are discussing steps 6 & 7 while you haven’t even figured out #4.

When the case on the right came out of your press, that should have been a full STOP on loading until you figured out the cause.



That’s not rocket science either, the case is either too long or got shoved in deeper, we can’t answer that question and have been trying to gather enough data from you over the last couple of days, so we can.

No need to even bring seating and crimping into the conversation as, at this point, they are just a distraction and cannot resolve the problem above.

Imagine the frustration you would have reading a book, just randomly flipping pages vs starting at page 1 and reading through them in sequential order.

Did you do this Tuesday night?

I’ll do an experiment tonight. I’ll size some cases and trim a few to .888 and a few to .908 (SAAMI limits), expand them using the Hornady Custom expander and measure the flares.

And what were the head stamps on the 45 ACP cases you had to trim to .908?

 

[higgite]

Yes, because longer cases give me wider flares.
I’ll do an experiment tonight. I’ll size some cases and trim a few to .888 and a few to .908 (SAAMI limits), expand them using the Hornady Custom expander and measure the flares.

Just noticed another typo(?). SAAMI limit is .898, not .908. Like jmorris said, all we know is what you tell us. Details count.

 

[jmorris]

^ I don’t think that is as important as finding out what 45 ACP case he has to trim, to shorten, to .908”. I’ve been wanting to know since Tuesday…maybe he’s keeping it a secret.

 

[higgite]

^ I don’t think that is as important as finding out what 45 ACP case he has to trim, to shorten, to .908”. I’ve been wanting to know since Tuesday…maybe he’s keeping it a secret.

I see where you're going with the headstamp thing, but he does seem prone to typos. I'm guessing (hoping?) he meant .898 when he typed .908. Like I said way back in the thread, things just aren't adding up when he claims to have trimmed a 45ACP case from .95" to .908".

 

[jmorris]

I see where you're going with the headstamp thing, but he does seem prone to typos. I'm guessing (hoping?) he meant .898 when he typed .908.

I can’t help him with hope and can only try and help him using the information he provides.

If it is incorrect, the mistake is frequently reoccurring along with other data that would be hard to extrapolate if the oddly long lengths were incorrectly reported. Like the OD of the flare itself.

Post #34.

Cases measuring .88 set to flare to .475. Without moving the expander die cases measuring .95 flared to .495.

As I tried to show him in his last thread and page 2 of this one, the diameter of the flare isn’t going to be .020” different with a .010” difference in case length.

If none of the provided data is correct then I would refer back to the bottom of post #27.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Has there been an OP sighting? Hope everything’s okay.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Has there been an OP sighting? Hope everything’s okay.

Last Wednesday at 11PM.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Must be out shootin.

 

[Atavar]

Sorry guys. Life has been keeping me away from the loading bench, as much as I want to get back to it.
I know I am a hack at this reloading stuff. I am trying to get better at it and more dependable.
I really wish I had a local mentor, I am thinking of posting ads in my LGS’s offering to pay for instruction time at my bench. I could pay in primers lol.
I realize that none of this is magic and that almost all problems are operator malfunctions. That is the main focus of my improvement goals.
I did hear back from Lee, and they recommended I clean up and polish the entry ramp of my die and cut a secondary bevel at the transition of the entry cone to the taper bore.
I will post results when I can get that done.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Sorry guys. Life has been keeping me away from the loading bench, as much as I want to get back to it.
I know I am a hack at this reloading stuff. I am trying to get better at it and more dependable.
I really wish I had a local mentor, I am thinking of posting ads in my LGS’s offering to pay for instruction time at my bench. I could pay in primers lol.
I realize that none of this is magic and that almost all problems are operator malfunctions. That is the main focus of my improvement goals.
I did hear back from Lee, and they recommended I clean up and polish the entry ramp of my die and cut a secondary bevel at the transition of the entry cone to the taper bore.
I will post results when I can get that done.

Welcome back

That’s all well and good to hear from Lee but it’s not why you started this thread (or the prior one I don’t think). It’s the expanding/flaring problem.

So why don’t you fix the primary problem and see if it takes care of the secondary one? Trick question—it will.

 

[Atavar]

Welcome back

That’s all well and good to hear from Lee but it’s not why you started this thread (or the prior one I don’t think). It’s the expanding/flaring problem.

So why don’t you fix the primary problem and see if it takes care of the secondary one? Trick question—it will.

I certainly will, as soon as I can.

 

[NMexJim]

It's unbelievable to hear that Lee recommended you cut a secondary bevel in one of their dies much less suggest that their dies would need any polishing whatsoever.

I don't believe you have a die problem. I highly recommend that you go back to the start of this thread and read all of them very carefully. Your solution lies within.

 

[CQB45ACP]

It's unbelievable to hear that Lee recommended you cut a secondary bevel in one of their dies much less suggest that their dies would need any polishing whatsoever.

I don't believe you have a die problem. I highly recommend that you go back to the start of this thread and read all of them very carefully. Your solution lies within.

Great movie title “The Solution Lies Within”

 

[Atavar]

It's unbelievable to hear that Lee recommended you cut a secondary bevel in one of their dies much less suggest that their dies would need any polishing whatsoever.

I don't believe you have a die problem. I highly recommend that you go back to the start of this thread and read all of them very carefully. Your solution lies within.

I believe I have a multiplicity of problems, not the least of which is me. I am definitely going to revisit my own process, but I am not going to ignore the advice from Lee.

 

[ballman6711]

I believe I have a multiplicity of problems, not the least of which is me. I am definitely going to revisit my own process, but I am not going to ignore the advice from Lee.

I would recommend starting over at the beginning.

I would make a dummy round, starting with setting my sizing die. Then I would set my expanding die, then my seating die, and then my crimp die. After making one (only one) dummy round, I would check it to make sure it plunks.

If it passes the plunk test in your barrel, make another dummy or two to make sure the process is repeatable. If it is, you're good to go.

I have no problems making, fabricating, or modifying things, BUT (and it's a big but) I would try the above before grinding on the die. IF you do that, and it doesn't work, Lee may not warranty it for replacement, even though they (whoever the CS rep was) told you to do that. They should have told you to send it back so that they could do the modification.

Just my .02c.

chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

I believe I have a multiplicity of problems, not the least of which is me. I am definitely going to revisit my own process, but I am not going to ignore the advice from Lee.

I wouldn’t ignore it either provided it remains necessary after you fix the fundamental problem.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I would recommend starting over at the beginning.

I would make a dummy round, starting with setting my sizing die. Then I would set my expanding die, then my seating die, and then my crimp die. After making one (only one) dummy round, I would check it to make sure it plunks.

If it passes the plunk test in your barrel, make another dummy or two to make sure the process is repeatable. If it is, you're good to go.

I have no problems making, fabricating, or modifying things, BUT (and it's a big but) I would try the above before grinding on the die. IF you do that, and it doesn't work, Lee may not warranty it for replacement, even though they (whoever the CS rep was) told you to do that. They should have told you to send it back so that they could do the modification.

Just my .02c.

chris

Let’s make up an old saying that applies here…don’t rebuild your carburetor until you’re sure there’s gas in the tank.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I believe I have a multiplicity of problems, not the least of which is me. I am definitely going to revisit my own process, but I am not going to ignore the advice from Lee.

No offense but, did you lead the person on the phone to believe you’re a fully qualified machinist? Because precision cutting high-speed steel is not a job for the novice.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Let’s make up an old saying that applies here…don’t rebuild your carburetor until you’re sure there’s gas in the tank.

Brilliant! Because nobody these days knows what a cart is or why it’s not a good idea to put it before the horse.

ETA: then again, how many millennials know what a carburetor is or what it does? In a few years kids will be asking what “gas” is…