The Hunter Marksman Challenge! use your hunting rifle.

[BrobeeBiter]

Having 10 shots and a reload are not realistic for hunting. But would help to duplicate the stress (buck fever) of shooting at a live animal after being walking uphill.

One other question. When do I start the timer, at the 1st shot, or prior to mounting the rifle?

Agree on the concept of absolute realism (or lack of), but felt it was a good way to combine a bunch of objectives into one test format, the overarching goal of which is to help folks explore their limitations, experience a bunch of different shooting positions, feel some pressure of time, manipulate their guns a lot, and have some fun with their friends and hunting rifles.

Re timing constraint: the clock starts with the report of the first round and ends with the report of the last. That way you have all the time you need to focus up on that first round, and I'm not particularly fussy about which position you use to shoot it, i.e. you could change the order up a bunch so long as you hit all 5 positions.

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[Bill4282]

Great concept. Are you focused on gathering raw data or conclusive results data? Too many variables without manipulating the data a bunch.

 

[Scooter22]

Looks interesting. Prones a tuff position after rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders but I'll give it a go. Now what rifle to use??

 

[BrobeeBiter]

Great concept. Are you focused on gathering raw data or conclusive results data? Too many variables without manipulating the data a bunch.

I've got some specific things I'm looking for outside of what I've disclosed...so mostly interested in the raw data...

I hope you give it a shot and report back!

Looks interesting. Prones a tuff position after rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders but I'll give it a go. Now what rifle to use??

Sorry to read about your shoulders, can't wait to see which rifle you choose.

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[BrobeeBiter]

My buddy DM texted me up this afternoon to see if I wanted to do an impromptu shoot...woohoo!

He came and picked me up so we could chat on the drive out, and we had a blast as we both ran the HMC Baseline and then test-drove the next exercise I'm going to post in a week or two. He shot his Norinco M305 Scout built as well as his Ruger Scout Rifle, both in .308, and I had another go with my 30-06 Ruger No.1.

He had a bit of trouble with the magazine in his Ruger Scout (plastic) that ate his time for that run, and I think the zero for his M305 was a bit to much to the right with the factory ammo we bought on the way out of town. For my run...I think I was feeling some performance anxiety as I really wanted my single-shot to beat out his bolt gun for time, and as I was concentrating on hurrying I threw two...D'OH!

He expressed some anxiety for not ever having shot standing before, and was dreading the walk up to the targets after his first bout. When we got there and started counting hits, that anxiety lifted quite a bit as he did better than he thought he did and is now all keen to do dry-fire positional practice in the basement with his M305 so I set him up with an M1A dry fire device I had made many moons ago. He also expressed interest that he'd never run his bolt gun under stress before and was surprised at how much grief his magazine had given him. He's going to try some metal magazines for our next outing.

Felt like we both learned some things about how we shoot our guns, and overall had a total blast. Can't wait to get out with him again soon. He's a bit shy, so the only way I could convince him to let me post his pics was with a promise to go wild with redaction...







Cheers,

Brobee

 

[P.B.Walsh]

So this first target is from my FN SPR A1 rifle. Did not do so great here, connecting with only 7 shots at a time of 85 seconds. Had trouble shooting offhand with it. I think I can attribute that to the weight (15.2 pounds) of the rifle, and it being slightly nose heavy. However, once I dropped down to sitting, I felt great and used the weight as an advantage, especially in the sitting supported and prone positions.



Here is my best target of the two, shot first from my Fat scout. Performed much better due to the lighter weight and multi-positional stock. Scored 9 hits with this one and all 10 on paper (note the 10th hole at the 12 o'clock position).

Observations:
1. The McM A3 stock is awesome, however, it's not the best for offhand shooting, excelling in prone and supported positions.
2. The custom cut Win. Marksman stock is awesome for just about any position. Basically, the shape is a McM A1-3 / HSP M24 stock. Love, the shape and consider it about perfect.
3. Weight is a big deal, really need to cut the FN's weight to 10 - 12.5 pounds after this barrel burns out in a few years. So basically run a Light Palma barrel at 18" and grab a McM A1-3 EDGE stock (that stock alone saves ~15.8 oz.).
4. I need more practice loading my FN.
5. I need more offhand practice with everything.
6. Stripper clips are SO much faster than loading by hand (especially the slicker Sweedish Mauser clips when compared to worn 1903 strippers.

Overall, I had a great time, and feel like I could definitely improve with the FN given some practice.

 

[BrobeeBiter]

P.B.Walsh - That is a great showing, and I loved reading all your great observations. A quick question for my results spreadsheet - is your custom 1903A3 still in 30-06?

Glad to read you had a good time, and hope you'll "play" when I post some follow up exercises in a couple weeks!

Cheers, and thanks again,

B

 

[BrobeeBiter]

...and as a general note - I had a suggestion on another forum about modifying the scoring system to discount the time variable a bit. While for the purpose of my experiment I'm treating time and hits as separate variables and as such I am less interested in score, his suggestion was quite interesting.

The problem with the scoring system the way I have it proposed is that it disproportionally rewards fast time by comparison to hits. His suggestion was to use the square root of the time in seconds. I think this is an awesome suggestion that still makes time important, but not more-so than hits. I think that in the final presentation of scores this would be the way to go.

Cheers, and thank you all for getting out to try! Can't wait to see what you all come back with.

Brobee

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Yes my 03a3 is in 30-06 while my FN is chambered for .308.

I also wonder if using a higher powered scope (FN) resulted in a slower time. It's using a fixed 10x42mm SWFA

 

[dmurdach]

I wasn't able to get the target to open, has anyone else had problems? May just be this computer.

Dave

 

[BrobeeBiter]

I wasn't able to get the target to open, has anyone else had problems? May just be this computer.

Dave

Not sure what is up with my other domain, sorry!

Try this link:

http://www.eclecticworks.ca/hmc/target_20cm_bull.pdf

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[dmurdach]

That worked. Thanks! I will give it a go hopefully this weekend.

 

[jmr40]

I wasn't able to print the target, but used a 9" paper plate and didn't count any hits on the outside 1/2" of the plate.

I actually practice something similar fairly often by firing 3 shots as rapidly as possible from standing, sitting, and with shooting sticks at a 9" paper plate at 50 yards. It usually takes about 4 seconds to get 3/3 hits. I've done it in under 2 seconds if I didn't worry accuracy. Going to 10 shots, changing positions, and adding a reload made it a lot harder than I anticipated.

I used my Winchester 70 in 308 and got 8/10 shots in the 8" circle in 97 seconds for a score of 8.2. I had 2 issues.

#1, I rarely, actually never, practice kneeling and both misses came from that position.

#2, I did OK for the 1st 5 shots, but while reloading under stress I didn't get the cartridges in the magazine correctly the 1st try and it cost me a good 10-15 extra seconds. I've never practiced a quick reload. From a hunting perspective the 5-6 in the rifle have always been more than enough.

I'm going to reduce the target to 4" and spend some time practicing this at 50 yards with a 22. I'd like to be able to go 10/10 in under 60 seconds.

 

[BrobeeBiter]

jmr40 - really appreciate you going out and giving it a try! Have put your stats and observations into my data set. One quick question - which state/province are you in?

I like your 3 round drill and will give it a try next time I'm at the range. Agree that the re-loading aspect is somewhat un-necessary for a true hunting scenario, but I wanted to include some gun manipulation into the drill and thought that might be the best way. I muck it up a lot too, and think it's good to practice although Im not exactly sure why.

Curious about what a good score should be with a 'normal' hunting gun (bolt action blind box magazine)...I'll pull out my CZ550 next time I go and give the challenge a whirl with her.

I also love your idea for rimfire practice at 50 yards, will incorporate this into the practice curricula for sure.

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[BrobeeBiter]

If anyone's interested, here's what the distribution of scores I've received in the past two weeks looks like (note the different scoring formula I'm using if you want to calculate your own score):



For those lurking....where do you fit in now? How much could you improve if you practiced all summer?

Surprised there has not been more participation from THR crowd...maybe those who have tried (and liked) the challenge could do me a huge solid and recruit one or two of your friends?

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[BrobeeBiter]

Hey folks!

With spring around the corner, why don't we all go black bear hunting sometime this month? How about this:

You're walking into your hunting stand location...as you come around a bend on the cutline your walking you see a nice bear about 200 yards away working the ant hills along the edge of the trees. With lots of tall dead canary grass along the edge of the trees, it's virtually impossible to lay down for a good prone shot so despite the wind being at your back, you decide to try and get closer. Well, you make it about 50 yards and then the bear stands to take a look and totally sees you.

It's now or never!

black_bear_BB001

Instructions:

• Set up black bear target at 25 yards
• Fire two rounds at bear target - one from standing position, one from kneeling position
• Repeat 5 times for a total of 10 rounds fired
• Unlimited time between 2 shot relays, but try and insert some urgency between your standing shot and your kneeling shot.
• Optional - measure time between "go!" and report of second round. Report back total time elapsed in seconds for all 10 shots.
• Scoring - shots at least half way in the scoring zone = 1. Shots outside = 0. Maximum possible score = 10
• Submit feedback to Brobee about this month's challenge. Share in this thread if you'd like.
• Optional - Re-run baseline challenge on 100 yard 8 inch bull
• Recruit a friend!

I'm going to get out this weekend with a mini-30, a CZ 527 in 7.62x39, the .22lr, and my CZ550 ebony. Range report to follow...

Cheers,

Brobee

 

[Hardtarget]

No matter what...events keep stopping my range trips! Its killing me! Made plans three times...busted. I've down loaded the target. Maybe...just maybe....

Mark