9mm subsonic.

[bullseye308]

If I’m understanding this correctly, to make it as quiet as possible, you want a small charge of fast powder and a heavy(147 grain) bullet at or below ~1000 fps? Is that correct? I’m hearing that suppressor applications are getting approved much more quickly and am seriously considering one for my Glock and AR-9 and need to order some bullets at the least.

I have Bullseye and BE-86 on hand but think Titegroup may be better. I’ll be ordering 147 grain bullets from RMR and/or getting a new mold and casting and coating them. Am I on the right track?

 

[PO2Hammer]

I think so.
I use Bullseye and W231 in pistol and carbine loads with 147’s. Quiet even without a suppressor in the carbine.

 

[lordpaxman]

My match loads are subsonic. They’re a 147 with Titegroup, N320, or Sport Pistol. A powder in that range will work just fine. I haven’t developed a Bullseye load but that should work just as well.

 

[jmorris]

3.1 gn of N310 with a plated 147 @ 1.160
3.2 gn of N320...
3.2 gn of titegroup..

In that order are the ones I use most.

 

[chevrofreak]

Fast powders like Titegroup, GM3, N320, Clean Shot, AA2, tend to be preferred. You end up with less noise and ejecta out of the action of a semi-auto. You can get by with other powders, but they will usually be louder and more dirty from lower pressure. BE-86 is so energetic that you will have to reduce the charge weight significantly to not break the sound barrier. I tried a 5.1gr load of BE-86 with a 147gr HST and every one of them was over 1100fps out of an 8" 9mm AR.

As for faster approvals, I had a suppressor approved in 19 hours a month ago.

 

[bullseye308]

Should have mentioned, these will be fired in a Glock 17 and the AR9 is an 8” barrel. I don’t think adding a threaded barrel to the Glock will increase the length enough to worry about, but I may be wrong. Also, just looking for enough oomph to cycle and keep it reliable with accuracy being my primary focus.

I have heard turnaround on approvals has gotten much better, and I’m waiting on my back pay for my disability real soon, and if everything goes right, I’ll hopefully also get to setup a 25 yard range in the yard.

 

[Kaldor]

3.2gr of TG or N320 is 980fps with 147 HiTek coated for me.

 

[jmorris]

Should have mentioned, these will be fired in a Glock 17 and the AR9 is an 8” barrel.

The loads I listed run in everything I have tried them in except the MP5 SD. Their barrels are ported (to make supers sub) and bleed off too much pressure.

 

[zeke]

While running various 147's, have tried 124's with hp-38. The lighter bullets worked fine, especially if you needed a little more umph to run the suppressor without using slower powder with 147's.

 

[N555]

I use nitro100nf.
Unless you're loading shot shells, 12oz of nitro100nf or n310 lasts a long time.

 

[rfwobbly]

If I’m understanding this correctly, to make it as quiet as possible, you want a small charge of fast powder and a heavy(147 grain) bullet at or below ~1000 fps? Is that correct? I’m hearing that suppressor applications are getting approved much more quickly and am seriously considering one for my Glock and AR-9 and need to order some bullets at the least.

• Any load that has a bullet velocity less than ~1100 fps is going to be sub-sonic. It's not the brand of the powder or the weight of the bullet, it's the velocity of the projectile that matters.

• Your main problem is going to be the difference in the 2 barrel lengths. Powder puff, sub-sonic, PF125 loads in your Glock are going to be MUCH faster in your AR9... well above 1100 fps. By the time your loads get down to sub-sonic velocities for the AR9, they may be in the 700 fps range for the Glock.

• For a single, universal load used in both guns... Your velocities will be so slow in your Glock that a "fast" powder will be mandatory. But very fast powders are also very HOT burning powders. A major cause of silencer failure is piston lubrication failure. HOT is not going to help you in that regard.

• If you intend to purchase a "special powder" just for your silencer guns, then I would highly suggest you look at "single-base" powders. A lot of the heat of combustion is created by the presence of nitroglycerine in "double-base" powders. It also looks like a lot of the "trash" left in the receiver is the unconsumed carrier for the nitro. So by using a single-base powder you will eliminate a great deal of the heat, and most of the trash left inside the "can". This will contribute significantly to enhanced "can" longevity.

Single-base powders include: VihtaVuori N300 series (N320, N330), Vectan Ba series (Ba9, Ba9.5), IMR 7625, Accurate "Solo" series (Solo-1000, Solo-1250), etc. Some research required.

Hope this helps.

 

[PO2Hammer]

• Any load that has a bullet velocity less than ~1100 fps is going to be sub-sonic. It's not the brand of the powder or the weight of the bullet, it's the velocity of the projectile that matters.

• Your main problem is going to be the difference in the 2 barrel lengths. Powder puff, sub-sonic, PF125 loads in your Glock are going to be MUCH faster in your AR9... well above 1100 fps. By the time your loads get down to sub-sonic velocities for the AR9, they will be in the 700 fps range for the Glock.

Do you really think it would be 300 fps slower in a Glock than a 8” AR with 147’s?
I don’t think it would be that much.
A hot 115 load would loose that much, but all the chrono data I’ve seen of 147 loads is amazingly consistent from 4” to 16”.

 

[PO2Hammer]

From Lucky Gunner

 

[N555]

I get nearly the same velocity going from a 5 inch barrel to a 9 inch running nitro100nf it's only about 3gr of powder.
Which is great for me as that's my silencer load.

 

[EricBu]

If I’m understanding this correctly, to make it as quiet as possible, you want a small charge of fast powder and a heavy(147 grain) bullet at or below ~1000 fps? Is that correct? I’m hearing that suppressor applications are getting approved much more quickly and am seriously considering one for my Glock and AR-9 and need to order some bullets at the least.

I have Bullseye and BE-86 on hand but think Titegroup may be better. I’ll be ordering 147 grain bullets from RMR and/or getting a new mold and casting and coating them. Am I on the right track?

I prefer TiteGroup, as it's the most consistent with different barrel lengths. Probably the easiest powder to get sub loads that will be sub loads and function in both PCC's and pistols. I target < 900 fps for sub ammo also. Much over 1000 fps you start running the risk that your sub ammo today in May isn't in November when you shoot and it's 40 degrees colder or other weather/elevation changes you might deal with. I use the TB Bullets coated 147s for my sub loads, Osprey 9 on the pistols and a Hybrid 46 on the PCC's. Have also had good luck with Gallant and MBC coated bullets, Zero Jacketed bullets, and Berry's plated. The plated comes with the caveat that many caution against plated with cans...I myself have ran literally hundreds of thousands of plated through a half dozen calibers and I think it's more fiction than fact. I would say, I run cans on a few lever guns (38, 45), and I while I do use some plated rounds there, I am very particular about that roll crimp...as an aggressive roll crimp will split the plating.

 

[chevrofreak]

I prefer TiteGroup, as it's the most consistent with different barrel lengths. Probably the easiest powder to get sub loads that will be sub loads and function in both PCC's and pistols. I target < 900 fps for sub ammo also. Much over 1000 fps you start running the risk that your sub ammo today in May isn't in November when you shoot and it's 40 degrees colder or other weather/elevation changes you might deal with. I use the TB Bullets coated 147s for my sub loads, Osprey 9 on the pistols and a Hybrid 46 on the PCC's. Have also had good luck with Gallant and MBC coated bullets, Zero Jacketed bullets, and Berry's plated. The plated comes with the caveat that many caution against plated with cans...I myself have ran literally hundreds of thousands of plated through a half dozen calibers and I think it's more fiction than fact. I would say, I run cans on a few lever guns (38, 45), and I while I do use some plated rounds there, I am very particular about that roll crimp...as an aggressive roll crimp will split the plating.

Another problem you run into with some pistol powders is reverse temperature sensitivity, where you get more FPS at lower temperature than you do in hot temperatures. Silhouette is well known for this.

 

[bullseye308]

That all seems to be what I was thinking, just figured I’d get some feedback before I go shopping and make sure I only have to buy once. I didn’t figure there would be much difference in the 5” barrel on the g17 and the 8” on the AR9, and I’m just going to load them to be quiet and punch holes in paper, so no need to push the envelope here. Function and accuracy is all I’m after.

 

[rfwobbly]

Do you really think it would be 300 fps slower in a Glock than a 8” AR with 147’s?

♦ My experience was with 124gr and W231, which I neglected to note. Apologies for the omission.
♦ My guess is ~700fps simply because you can fire the gun, smoke a cigarette, and then walk to the target in time for it to hit.

 

[bullseye308]

Picked up a pound of titegroup yesterday for $51.57 from the local Academy. I have 500 rmr 147 matchwinners already, and am thinking about a mold to cast and coat my own 145-150 sized bullets. I should have plenty of time to decide on a mold while I wait for my backpay then decide on a suppressor.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Would like to get a range report on those 147 match winners.

 

[bullseye308]

Would like to get a range report on those 147 match winners.

It’ll be a while. I’m waiting on my disability backpay to come in then I have to decide on a suppressor, get a threaded barrel for my Glock, wait to get the suppressor, then start loading for it. I’m anxious to get started, but the reality keeps getting in the way.

 

[chevrofreak]

Picked up a pound of titegroup yesterday for $51.57 from the local Academy. I have 500 rmr 147 matchwinners already, and am thinking about a mold to cast and coat my own 145-150 sized bullets. I should have plenty of time to decide on a mold while I wait for my backpay then decide on a suppressor.

Be careful with Titegroup and exposed lead base bullets and it will vaporize the lead and increase suppressor fouling. Another problem Titegroup has is that it is the highest nitroglycerin content smokeless powder and it reacts with polymers on coated bullets. I try to only use it with plated or JHP bullets. I was running Titegroup with a 124gr FMJ in my 5.5" mid brake TACCOM barreled competition PCC and it was getting some pretty extreme lead fouling in the compensator.

 

[Pat Riot]

♦ My guess is ~700fps simply because you can fire the gun, smoke a cigarette, and then walk to the target in time for it to hit.

A Whole cigarette? C’mon, tell the truth. You can only smoke half a cigarette. I know exaggeration when I see it.

 

[Varminterror]

I'm not trying to throw any wrinkles in the mix here, and I'm not even saying a guy should try to chase this particular rabbit, because doing so really doesn't get anybody fed, BUT, to make rounds really as quiet as possible (besides keeping the breech sealed as long as possible to also keep port blast down), the escaping ejecta needs to also be below the sound barrier, and it runs (SAAMI standard velocity factor) 1.5x faster than the bullet. So we're capped at 800fps bullet velocity if we really wanna be as absolutely as quiet as possible. Most folks just try to keep the bullet under 1100fps and let the can do the rest, but I played a bit with trying to keep the ejecta gas below the speed of sound in my Maxim 9 a few years ago, and it was RIDICULOUSLY quiet. Kinda surprising what ~3.5grn of ejecta really sounded like breaking the sound barrier, even through the can (I guess, not really a can, more of a box, in my case).

 

[LiveLife]

Another problem you run into with some pistol powders is reverse temperature sensitivity, where you get more FPS at lower temperature than you do in hot temperatures. Silhouette is well known for this.

Yes. Here's more listings of temperature sensitive and reverse temperature sensitive powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10117881

Glock 17 and AR9 ... 8” barrel ... Bullseye ... Titegroup ... 147 grain bullets from RMR and/or getting a new mold and casting and coating them.

FWIW, MBC 147 gr and 3.5 gr of W231/HP-38 is my reference load compared to Promo/Bullseye/Titegroup loads with corresponding felt recoil rating compared to (5) for W231/HP-38 with Glock 22 and KKM/Lone Wolf conversion barrels - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-147-gr-lead-bullet-powder-comparison.748940/

W231/HP-38 3.5 gr - 1.14" with mild recoil (5)
Promo 3.1-3.3 gr - 1.44" with light recoil (4)
Promo 3.3-3.5 gr - 1.10" with mild recoil (6)

Bullseye 2.7 gr - 1.46" with very light recoil (3)
Bullseye 2.9 gr - 1.30" with light recoil (4)
Bullseye 3.2 gr - 1.18" with light recoil (4)

Titegroup 3.1 gr - 1.64" with mild recoil (5)
Titegroup 3.3 gr - 1.26" with mild recoil (6)
Titegroup 3.5 gr - 1.04" with moderate recoil (7)