Shooting Handguns in Twilight

[SharpsDressedMan]

If you haven't shot in low light lately, or at all, my experiences may get you to do so. I am 59, have shot handguns for 45 years now, and have a fair amount of experience. This day at the range was a bit different, as I spent an hour or so, and due to the time change, went from normal light into dusk a little earlier than normal. The results were bit of a surprise. As it got to dusk, I was shooting a S&W 3913, and the little gun groups pretty nicely. As it got darker, my eyes had a harder time aiming; no surprise. It FELT like I had a good sight picture each time, but as darkness progressed, my groups got a little more erratic. There were still some centered, accurate shots, but the flyers increased. I was not tired, and I started to rest my hands on the bench to take out some of the human factor. But the flyers continued. I can only surmise that the fuzziness of dusk affected my defining of the target, even though it APPEARED distinguishable. Has anyone else done an extensive analysis of this phenonemon? I am concluding that it is not just my eyes, but that it maybe impossible to obtain target definition with iron sights even in mildly low light. I was shooting 25 yards, and my groups opened from about 3-4" to about 6-7" with the flyers. Anyone else have similar experience, or opinions on similar results? I have shot with night sights, night vision, lasers, red dots, etc, at night, but this plain iron sight thing was getting poorer results than I would have believe they should. I think it is an optical thing that we need to experience to know the limits to our shooting ability under those conditions.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I've certainly seen that as darkness falls, and I get older, my shooting deteriorates to more quickly than it used to. I've been experimenting with a gold bead in the front sight and have had a number of pistols set up that way. I've found that it's a big help.

 

[David E]

It's a simple matter to verify your sights in the muzzle flash. While practice and proper technique are required to get your first hit on target, afterwards, use the muzzle flash to confirm your sights.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Muzzle flash had nothing to do with what I experience or am saying. I could see my sights and the target. It was the definition between the two that was waning. Immediately, the ability to get the same resuls was deteriorating. Yes, in DARKNESS the muzzle flash will show you picture of your sights.

 

[tipoc]

I believe I am familiar with what sharp dressed is raising.

It would be easy to say that as it gets darker it gets harder to see and leave it at that. That would be a revelation that should surprise no one. That objects become less distinct during twilight is also no stunner.

Sahrp dressed raises a good point though. He mentions that he can see the sights clearly and the target well enough to aim at. But that the ability to draw a fine bead fades in low light conditions. This is the case and particularly as we age or if a disease effects vision (diabetes for example). In any case objects tend to lose their sharp edges in twilight even when we can see them clearly enough to distinguish them. It is those sharp edges that help us draw a finer bead in my experience.

tipoc

 

[hardluk1]

I do practice point shooting but only out to 10 yards max . If I have to shoot at 25 yards at dusk I better have some kind of optic help. Eyes ain't what they once were.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Truglo TFO sights are made for this. The combination of fiber-optics and tritium is great.

but this plain iron sight thing was getting poorer results than I would have believe they should.

If we didn't expect worse results with plain irons at dusk/dark, why would anyone buy night sights?

 

[Dnaltrop]

That's why I threw a set of Trijicon on my M&P, and when I get the chance at the range, I shut the lights off and practice with my sights, and with the sights plus a flashlight in my left hand.

Finger joints too damaged to do the flashlight-between-the-knuckles trick, but my accuracy is close to full light conditions, at least in the confines of the Range.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Iget you guys. I used to think that night sights, or even fiber optics were for darkeness only (night sights) or high def, like hunting (fiber optics), but this low light stuff might really benefit from either, if better accuracy is needed. Don't misunderstand, even my BIG groups were o.k. for self defense at that range, but thinking one could nail the target as well as in better light just seemed to not be possible with plain iron sights. I might be looking at the enhanced sights, although some of them detract from accurate shooting in daylight. The white dots, or white outline stuff, kind of detracts from the clean "black on black" plain, blued sights, for me.

 

[Zengunfighter]

Tru-Glo TFOs Rawk!

Your vision is 'divided' into two parts; direct and peripheral. The direct acounts for the center 2% and is filled mostly with cones, for color vision. Cones suck in low light.
Rods are great at low light, but aren't at the center of your vision, the part you'd normally use to aim.
So there is a battle going on there and I think that is why you are seeing a 'flucuation' in your groups.

There are some real cool weapon mounted lights out there these days

 

[David E]

I run 2 local indoor matches a month, focusing on actual carryguns.

Last month, I had a stage with retreating double targets, etc. First time thru, normal lighting. Second time, low light. The light level being what you might find in a parking garage.

Many did better in the low light stage than the normal lighted version. Of course, the distances involved were realistic defense distances on full size "people" targets, not an NRA bullseye at 25 yds.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Darn, thought this thread was going to be about shooting those darn sparkly vampires.

 

[sugarmaker]

I find my iron sight handgun groups open up in evening twilight, even though I (think) can see the sights. the shots aren't wild by any means, but I will find myself missing the 9" 100 yard plate with the 8" DW 44V more than I would like.

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Zoom6zoom, you beat me to it, lol. I haven't shot in a low-light situation, yet. I gues I should be getting on that in the next range session (whenever that may be).

 

[chicharrones]

The white dots, or white outline stuff, kind of detracts from the clean "black on black" plain, blued sights, for me.

The white dots are what allow me to keep shooting in twilight. Fiber optic sights do the same, but those tend to get damaged for me in field use.

I've used white sight paint to help out with plain iron sights on rifles to get me that extra bit of shooting time at twilight. My favorite rifle set up is a peep sight in the rear with a black post up front with a white dot painted on that black post. It's not necessarily target accurate, though.

Standard tritium sights are less white than plain white dots and actually make my twilight shooting a bit tougher. Until it gets a bit darker that is, then the tritium comes alive. Of course, laser sights work very well at twilight if you like that sort of sighting system.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I'd say that's pretty darn good shooting if you're achieving 6-7" groups at 25 yards in low light with stock iron sights.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm not bad, but I just couldn't understand WHY the group was opening up when I SWEAR I had a good sight picture. It had to be some kind of optical delusion associated with the reduction of light. I just wondered if anyone else had expericenced it, and what you all thought.